Telegraf.mk asked the president of VMRO-DPMNE party, Nikola Gruevski, a large number of questions related to the current political situation. Due to the scale of his answers, the interview will be published in several sequels.
Gruevski gives answers on a number of issues, including the daily protests, the postponement of the general elections, the work of the Special Prosecutor's Office, the political situation and the ways to overcome the crisis.
In the first part of the interview, the VMRO-DPMNE leader speaks about the way the NGOs backed by Soros work and the cancellation of the general elections previously scheduled to take place on June 5.
T: Protests are taking place daily. According to the accusations, NGOs that have high amounts of money at their disposal stand behind these demonstrations, and that there are people who earn their living in this way. However, protests are sometimes held, sometimes not. How do these people manage to earn their living like this?
"You see, the NGOs that are financed mainly by Soros-affiliated companies and some other foreign sources have continuity in their work, both in times of protests and peace. During the periods when protests are not held, they spend the money on more or less the same people, but in different forms. For instance, they have various public debates against the Government's projects and activities, they hold press conferences, are guests in TV and radio shows, organize so-called plenums of different sorts, undergo various training for all of this.
The training is most often carried out by the most prominent figures of the Soros-affiliated organizations, and from what I've heard, they often demonstrate an utterly sect-like behavior and attend lectures, which are attempts to recruit young and perspective people and indoctrinate them, at the same time, giving them money and many free travels, which is the main motif for these people to come to these lectures and efforts to brainwash them. Those who will not accept their game after a while, who will not succumb to the indoctrination, get informed not to come anymore, so the money are invested in others, who will yield greater effect.
T: What does sect-like behavior means?
"Here's one example which I learnt from one of the participants in the lectures, I believe in 2009. Speaking to them against the Government's policies, they asked some of the people present to get up on a table, jump and step over the VMRO-DPMNE program. Totally crazy!
Or they demand all the lectures' attendees to repeat as if they were a choir: This Government is wrong!!! And more things alike which would shock a normal person.
Not all of them use these kinds of methods, they have more sophisticated ones but they also have many such as these. The attendees come because they are certain they will get money, most often in some very easy form, for instance, giving an idea, holding a lecture before a group of students or something alike. A large portion of them do not succumb to the indoctrination, but they need the money, so they listen and keep quiet. Some of those attendees have told me that they went to the lectures only because of the money, which they needed the most at that moment, but they were appalled by what they heard and saw.
In 2009, when the campaign 'You Are Macedonia' reached its peak, one of the basic lessons was to convince the listeners that 'You Are not Macedonia' and that nobody in this country should identify with the place and the country of birth and residence, but to feel exclusively as a person of the world. The individual should not have a different experience for its nation, tradition, history, and for his country in terms of any other country.
That was a direct indoctrination to the young people not to feel Macedonia as their country anymore. And I'm not surprised that today, without a spark of awareness, some young people desecrate monuments dedicated to Macedonian heroes who have given their lives for today's freedom and state.
Those same lecturers and attendees are tasked to take part in shows to most fiercely attack the Government and VMRO-DPMNE, to write columns, to work as journalists or to host some shows and news portals, or plenums, protests, public debates, to write negatively everywhere outside the country against us, to send thousands of letters and e-mails to blacken the Government, to give statements to foreign media or foreign analysts, to spend time with them and convince them there is no freedom and democracy in our country, so they could then spread this idea.
Otherwise, what we saw from the media reports in recent days, some exponents in the protests that are organized by these NGOs have been paid up to EUR 70,000 a year.
T: So, are you are trying to say that you have been constantly dealing with this sort of opponent?
"We have two oppositions. One is official, SDSM along with a few smaller and one-man parties, which I would dub a paid opposition, even though indirectly the first one also uses the funds of the second one. Probably someone estimated that when SDSM is opposition, they cannot independently win the confidence of the people and that is why a lot of money is invested to help them. This has been going on for two decades..
All of their NGOs, which are financed by Soros when VMRO-DPMNE is in government, work against us, while when SDSM rule, they work on projects supported by SDSM. So, someone on the outside has been engaged, over the past two decades, to help out SDSM. Firstly because with their choice of staff, they are incapable of coming into power themselves and staying there, and secondly, because somebody wishes they are in power, due to a personal interest. Nobody invests that amount of money without having a personal agenda.
Let me just remind you that this is not only happening in Macedonia, but in several other countries in Eastern Europe and the Balkans too.
For two and a half decades, VMRO-DPMNE has been relying only on the support of the people and the party is trying to be as servient to the people as possible, to fulfill its promises to the citizens and to respond to their demands and requests. While, SDSM only serves to its foreign sponsors, not to the people.
They consider the people solely as an instrument which should be taken advantage of in order to obtain power and remain in power as long as possible. While they are in power, it is key to for them to satisfy their informal ally, while the people get thrown a bone once in a while.
Furthermore, they have always been allowed to persecute people from VMRO-DPMNE so as to slow down the process of gaining voter confidence back in VMRO-DPMNE. Those that have impartially observed the situation, know that in times when SDSM is in power, freedom and democracy are always diminished, but that is not considered an issue. Democracy and freedom is an issue only when VMRO-DPMNE is in power. That is the situation.
They speak that there is lack of freedom and democracy, while at the same time they appear in the media all of the time. When we were the opposition, I remember that we fought for every second in the media, or for someone from the media to show up at a press conference. Sometimes no one came. While at times, several journalists came, but no media wanted to cover the press conference. They have been: protesting for weeks, destroying government property, vandalizing monuments of the most important people in our history, paint-balling buildings, even those that are not part of the 'Skopje 2014" project, which is a thorn in SDSM's eye because it proves a lack of engagement during their reign.
The country hosts a big number of media houses. Anyone can say anything or issue critiques without any consequences. This has been a constant throughout our mandate.
But, despite the fact that it is clear democracy prevails abundantly, we will still work on ensuring that the level of democracy is further boosted.
T: You are never quite clear when you talk about some foreign forces? Can you tell us something more concrete about it?
"I am not a political analyst, nor a journalist, I am a politician on a very sensitive position. I say as much as I believe I can, so it will not damage the state or the citizens. It is one thing when a political commentator or analyst says something, and it is another when it is said by a politician with position and responsibility such as mine. In the first case, the worst that could happen is someone to suffer personal consequences or none at all, while in the second case the consequences will fall over the state and the people. That is why I need to be responsible. But I believe the majority of the people, more or less, know about it."
T: We have gone onto political topics. Zaev has been saying that you are done, that you have been preparing for collapse, that SDSM is going to take over the ruling, that you are scared and that all he has said so far, has come true. How would you comment these statements?
"Zaev knows really well what mess he will bring Macedonia and himself into. He is hoping that whoever brought him here, will pull him out. He knows that it is not us who is done, but had he taken part in the elections, he would have been done as a politician. He would have ended his political career. Many SDSM members who have a better political estimations, cannot wait for that to happen, and are aware that with him as a leader there can only be damage, and not ruling.
Now, with postponing the elections he is relieved. He bought some time, to create new malice and manipulation. After he did not succeed in the operation with the so-called bombs, to change the public's mind, the Special Public Prosecutor's Office (SPO) is his last hope. Let me be clear. We support the institution of SPO. That is why we voted for it. We support the idea of an independent body, trusted by both the opposition and the international factor, to investigate the crimes Zaev tried to frame us with, and present us in a different light than we actually are. We want these things to be cleared, because we know we are innocent of the accusations SDSM's president assigned to us with his dirty operation for which he said it was provided by a foreign intelligence service. Something the entire country saw, and heard. However, in the past 6 months, the people of this institution have shown too many weaknesses and too much unprofessionalism for us not to express our disappointment and concern. This is a small country, a small capital, everyone is quick to find out about anyone's behavior and intentions. Unfortunately, we cannot see professionalism, objective approach, non-party institution, innocence presumption, equal approach to everyone, and similar fair and professional standards, and all we see in these people is the complete opposite."
End of part one.
(In the second part, on Thursday, Nikola Gruevski gives detailed answers to the questions regarding SPO's work, elaborating the principles due to which the party has reacted several times over unprofessionalism, selectivity, and political approach of the SPO.)